2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

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Like the NFL, should veterans on a team roster in Week 1 have their full salary guaranteed?

Yes
30
70%
No
13
30%
 
Total votes: 43

Goodell
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2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Goodell »

If a vested player -- with four or more years of NFL experience -- is on the roster for week 1, his salary is guaranteed for the year
As was discussed in a previous thread, seems like there are increasingly more NFL news stories about veterans on the roster for week 1 have their salary for that season guaranteed.

http://www.fangm.com/sportstalk/viewtop ... =666#p7189

If that's the case every year and it becomes a big part of why certain players are on the roster or not in reality, I'm thinking might be something we need to look at also.

It could lead to more veterans being cut before the season, which would lead to tougher decisions, more talent on the open market for additional free agency signing battles, and extend some of the popular free agency activity.

How it technically would be handled in the system would be checking the years of experience on a cut player and if eligible adding a cap hit line at the bottom for his entire salary being paid. Like Kyle Orton last year, if that happened during an eligible time after the trading deadline and another team claimed the veteran on the waiver wire then his original team wouldn't have to pay the rest of the salary but his claiming team would pick up that remaining guaranteed amount.

Downside of this? More restriction perhaps on a team to cut veterans during the season if they are on the hook for their entire salary. Maybe adds confusion for some, or not seen as necessary?

The default position I'm leaning toward would be instituting that rule change (4year+ veterans on rosters after week 1 having their salary that year fully guaranteed) since it was an important factor frequently discussed in finalizing rosters last training camp, and presumably into the future I'd imagine as I don't think any 1-year temporary reasons for that. More veterans being cut and put onto the market could add more realism to our processes as you see that often in reality with expensive veterans being let go every year.
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Ulrich82
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Ulrich82 »

I was initially against this rule because I worried it would make it harder for teams to comply with the salary cap. However, I now realize it would likely cut down on cutting veterans midseason to try to resign them to a lower contract while there is reduced competition. I'm not singling anyone out since this isn't illegal and I've participated in it from both sides to some extant. However, I do think curbing this practice would be for the best for our game.
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Goodell »

Ulrich82 wrote:I was initially against this rule because I worried it would make it harder for teams to comply with the salary cap. However, I now realize it would likely cut down on cutting veterans midseason to try to resign them to a lower contract while there is reduced competition. I'm not singling anyone out since this isn't illegal and I've participated in it from both sides to some extant. However, I do think curbing this practice would be for the best for our game.
Yeah, that's a good point. Might still see some of that (for better or worse) but it would make that a more expensive choice limiting it in more cases.
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Goodell »

Wanted to remind people of this widely supported adjustment to reality where veterans (4+ years) would have their full salary guaranteed after week 1.

I am trying to make sure everything installed for the new year with a couple enhancements about done, so probably won't sim until late tonight while making sure everything is good to go for the season from the start, so you have some time still if you have a veteran with a salary that you don't feel like being guaranteed all year. If he's on your roster after week 1, if he's cut during the season his full salary would go against the cap (not just a partial salary) per these rules discussions and near 75% approval in GM votes over the off-season.
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Adam K
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Adam K »

Goodell wrote:Wanted to remind people of this widely supported adjustment to reality where veterans (4+ years) would have their full salary guaranteed after week 1.

I am trying to make sure everything installed for the new year with a couple enhancements about done, so probably won't sim until late tonight while making sure everything is good to go for the season from the start, so you have some time still if you have a veteran with a salary that you don't feel like being guaranteed all year. If he's on your roster after week 1, if he's cut during the season his full salary would go against the cap (not just a partial salary) per these rules discussions and near 75% approval in GM votes over the off-season.
What happens when you trade a veteran? Will that work like it did in the past?
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Goodell »

Adam K wrote:
Goodell wrote:Wanted to remind people of this widely supported adjustment to reality where veterans (4+ years) would have their full salary guaranteed after week 1.

I am trying to make sure everything installed for the new year with a couple enhancements about done, so probably won't sim until late tonight while making sure everything is good to go for the season from the start, so you have some time still if you have a veteran with a salary that you don't feel like being guaranteed all year. If he's on your roster after week 1, if he's cut during the season his full salary would go against the cap (not just a partial salary) per these rules discussions and near 75% approval in GM votes over the off-season.
What happens when you trade a veteran? Will that work like it did in the past?
Yeah, that should just impact outright releases.
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Ulrich82
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Ulrich82 »

I think we might want to keep an eye out for more info on this. Of course, any change would have to occur next offseason, but I keep hearing that these contracts are not exactly guaranteed. Each vested vet (4 years or more) can take "termination pay" equal to his current year's salary once in his career. Bucs beat reported Rick Stroud (@NFLSTROUD) tweeted today about Tampa releasing Preston Parker:

FYI: Preston Parker's salary was not guaranteed simply because he was on the roster Week 1. You have to be a vested vet (4 yrs) to qualify
http://en.twitter.com/NFLSTROUD/status/ ... 7106468864

It's known as termination pay and a player may elect to take it one time in their career. But you have to be vested to have a right to it.
http://en.twitter.com/NFLSTROUD/status/ ... 7309697024

I really don't think veteran's contracts are guaranteed as much as they *could be* guaranteed if a vet is cut, and he chooses to take his termination pay. The problem with enforcing such a rule is that a borderline NFL player is likely to take termination pay the first chance he gets, but a journeyman veteran may already have taken it once.
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Ben C.
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Ben C. »

PFT reported Bryan Thomas's release from the Jets and mentioned that his salary is fully guaranteed because he's a vested vet.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... an-thomas/

Even if it is only once a career, I think it would make sense to keep it the way we've set it up now. Adding too much complexity may make it difficult for a lot of GMs to figure out our game.
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Jared A
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by Jared A »

While I voted against this then, I want to reiterate that I'm against it. Teams have a BUNCH more loopholes to get under the cap than we do. This rule is more of a rule protecting vets from being released after week one and not being able to find a new team. This does not make a difference to our guys, as they're not real characters.
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Re: 2012 RULES: Week 1 Veteran Salary Guaranteed

Post by lucky7jc »

Could we do something like a modified system? Say take a player signed at a term (e.g. 3 yrs+) that meets the 4yr+ tenure, and guarantee that. It would be a simple attachment to the players rosters (e.g. different color font) for all vested players at 4+ yrs and then if the contract was (# yrs signed) then their salary would be guaranteed. Maybe even attach "player must not be picked up by another team for 1 week before being re-signed by the releasing team." I would eliminate the 'one time exception' to the player option b/c it creates confusion, and there would have to be someone appointed to manage who did or did not. This creates a whole other bag of worms in itself also.

Player A: signed 3yrs on 07/28/2012 @ 750,000/yr

Cut 09/18/2012 is owed 750,000 for 2012 w/ no split option

Player B: signed 3yrs on 07/28/2012 @ 750,000/yr

Cut on 09/18/2012 is owed a prorated amount of $44,117.65
Calculated @$750,000 / 17 weeks = $44,117.65 x 1 week = $44,117.65


This may not be possible but it sounds efficient, and easy to manage.
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