Sim question

RyanM
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Sim question

Post by RyanM »

I won, so this is just a question. In losing it would probably have been a gripe. ;)

Seattle OL to Detroit F7 was a 0.5 advantage to Seattle. Stewart ran for a craptastic 2.3 ypc IRL. I would have expected that average to go up with the OL advantage, but instead it dropped to 1.8.

Seattle F7 to Detroit OL was also a 0.5 advantage to Seattle. Medenhall ran for a 6.5 ypc IRL. I would have expected that average to drop with the F7 advantage, but instead it stayed exactly the same.

I don't know if this was a bug or not, or if there's an explanation - just wanted to raise those points. The bigger issue is Henne needs to get the ball in the damn endzone & quit settling for FGs!!
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Ben C.
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Re: Sim question

Post by Ben C. »

Someone else had a similar question to this a couple weeks ago, and one point was made that where you are reading the averages, you may be mis-reading the information. Here's what it says for the update for your game:
Detroit RB1: 22-155 (6.5 adj) | SIM: 23-150 (6.5 ave) ; RB2: 2-29 (14 adj) | SIM: 3-42 (14 ave) ; RB3: 2-5 (2 adj) | SIM: 2-4 (2 ave)
Seattle RB1: 13-24 (2.3 adj) | SIM: 10-18 (1.8 ave) ; RB2: 0-0 (0.5 adj) | SIM: 0-0 (0 ave) ; RB3: 8-33 (4.6 adj) | SIM: 4-14 (3.5 ave)
The Detroit RB1 real life average was actually 7.05 (155 yards divided by 22 carries). The line lists the adjusted average. So the Detroit back had exactly what he was supposed to in this game.

The Seattle RB1 real life average was 1.85. It seems to me that it was just bad luck that this back didn't get his adjusted average. His second to last carry, with 14:41 to go in the 4th, put him at the average. His last carry, with 2:51 to go, was a three yard loss. I bet if he had one more carry it would have brought the average back up, but the team was behind until the game winning touchdown - on 4th and goal! - with 39 seconds left.
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Goodell
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Re: Sim question

Post by Goodell »

RyanM wrote:I won, so this is just a question. In losing it would probably have been a gripe. ;)

Seattle OL to Detroit F7 was a 0.5 advantage to Seattle. Stewart ran for a craptastic 2.3 ypc IRL. I would have expected that average to go up with the OL advantage, but instead it dropped to 1.8.

Seattle F7 to Detroit OL was also a 0.5 advantage to Seattle. Medenhall ran for a 6.5 ypc IRL. I would have expected that average to drop with the F7 advantage, but instead it stayed exactly the same.

I don't know if this was a bug or not, or if there's an explanation - just wanted to raise those points. The bigger issue is Henne needs to get the ball in the damn endzone & quit settling for FGs!!
That was a heck of a game and great comeback to win in the final moments thanks to Stafford having those 5 INTs. Lots of 4th quarter action.

Actually Medenhall was right where he should be. I should probably reword some of that because someone else thought the same thing earlier in the year.

Detroit RB1: 22-155 (6.5 adj) | SIM: 23-150 (6.5 ave)
155 yards in reality divided by 22 is over 7 yards a carry, so the -.5 you mentioned for trench disadvantage put him to an expected 6.5 adjusted average going into the game which he ended up with exactly.

Your RB1 was under his expectations, though, but that happens sometimes unless we had RBs only run for the exact same yards every time. The sim basically reacts from run to run to try to bring it back into balance around the adjusted average. If he gets under it, the next run is much more likely to be longer. If he gets over his expected average, the next run probably will be shorter to get close to the average. Basically RBs should be a play away from their average, and the game might end before there is a reaction to get them exactly back.

Being behind at the end, it paid less attention to running the ball and more passing trying to score quickly. But in Stewart's second to last rushing attempt he was right on his average as it posts after every run:
14:41 | 1 and 10 @ 20 (20)... Jonathan Stewart runs for 3 yards (9-21yds | 2.3 ave:2.3).

2.3 in-game average versus a 2.3 expected average.

The next play he happened to get stuffed.
2:51 | 1 and 10 @ 18 (82)... Jonathan Stewart runs for -3 yards (10-18yds | 1.8 ave:2.3).

And didn't get a carry after that, but if he did, it would have adjusted back toward the average with a longer run to compensate but game ended before that chance.

But as should be the case most of the time, a RB should be within a run of his average and either hit it or be right on it on his second to last run if the game didn't have time for another carry to bring it back to the average. But for the vast majority of the game outside of the last attempt, RBs should be at their adjusted average. With so few carries, one extra play can really move an average on it's own quite a bit to exaggerate that.

But in this case, it worked at least as it was intended. It doesn't put up the final numbers and work backwards knowing exactly how many chances a player will have, but instead goes from zero up without knowing when a player's last attempt will be to make sure he ends up exactly at his average. But there will always be an action and a reaction to that in attempts to keep a balance of plays and moving toward that adjusted average on each attempt. Hope that helps...
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Re: Sim question

Post by RyanM »

cool - I definitely missed on the "adj" next to the stats.
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Re: Sim question

Post by TylerW »

i know we had the discussion on crabtree but i just dont get how a guy like hedgecock who hasnt had a rushing yard all season has 6 TDs on the sim season now including a TD this week. if he hes a blocking back in real life shouldnt he be considered a blocking back in this sim?
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Re: Sim question

Post by Goodell »

TylerW wrote:i know we had the discussion on crabtree but i just dont get how a guy like hedgecock who hasnt had a rushing yard all season has 6 TDs on the sim season now including a TD this week. if he hes a blocking back in real life shouldnt he be considered a blocking back in this sim?
Which team and what's the situation? If a team doesn't have a dominating RB taking up all the carries but a lesser group that shares the ball around more then RB3s will get more carries than if a strong RB1 and RB2 who take up almost all the touches. Our first season we had some RB1s who piled up 40 carries or more so adjusted things to share the ball more between the 3 backs generally.

I know people look at the TDs, but when you're in short yardage any back can get a yard or two and the sim doesn't really care what the name of the guy is.

We don't currently label backs as "blocking" backs other than if they are FB by position they can contribute toward the OL grade as a blocking grade aid. We could maybe add "blocking back" designation, but then it complicates matters for some teams who maybe are at the bottom of the league with no real feature backs but a lot of "blocking back" types who somebody needs to carry the ball no matter what their designation.

We do have the RB1, RB2, and RB3 rankings and that should help the sim determine who gets the share of the carries as well as their updates, but there is still some randomness to the call on who gets the ball with the higher guys just having much better odds.

As far as on the entire season, the sim currently does not look at seasonal numbers just game updates for that one game. It would be nice to also perhaps bring in some seasonal statistics consideration sometimes so hopefully in the future but currently it doesn't look at seasonal figures.
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Re: Sim question

Post by TylerW »

NYG in CFFL he has Jacobs but Hedgecock in RL hasnt carried the ball once. Yet in the sims is getting TDs and carries. I mean i know he got boosts from his line being a little better than mine but no way the game should have been a blowout in the Sim like it was getting double the TDs and an extra FG while rivers was subtracted a TD eventhough he had a + update with the grades.
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Re: Sim question

Post by Goodell »

In looking at the specifics, looks like a team with a strong RB1 but not strong backups where he's sometimes listed as RB2. If we didn't give him any carries as a RB2, then run the risk of the RB1 getting 40-50 carries unrealistically if limiting sharing the touches. In that sim situation without a good backup who has strong updates, it gives the ball sometimes to the designated RB2 without a strong update but will still pick up some yards. But without a game update their production would be limited -- only a 3 yard average on the year. But if the team has the ball a lot within the 5 yard line and doesn't give it to RB1 40 times then the RB2 will get some carries there also.

If we changed it the team scores wouldn't be any different because it would just give it to a different guy there (with probably better update) and still score on the run.

But I would still like to bring in some sim seasonal figures to help avoid situations where someone's seasonal numbers are out of whack, but there will probably always be cases where a guy is put in a position to get more usage in the sim (as a RB2) than he has in reality. He won't do great in that role without great updates, but can pick up a yard or two or three and if that happens by the goalline, then it's a score but it would be a score for anybody it just happened to be that guy placed into that higher role by the sim team with a mediocre default update that's good enough if close enough to the goal.
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Re: Sim question

Post by Goodell »

Opponents of that team would SUFFER if we didn't give their weak update RB2 any rushes but instead piled up their strong RB1 rushes even more. It's a good thing for that sim team's opponents that their RB2 gets some carries with a low average, not a bad thing. The TDs are just a factor of being inside the 5 yard line a ton of times and not giving it to Jacobs every single play over and over but sometimes giving it to RB2 also.
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Re: Sim question

Post by Michael D. »

It's hard to win Tyler when your OL is down .14 to a F7
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