2012 MVPs?

[tino38]

Dan R I never said Trout was not HOF caliber but I will absolutely refuse to mention his name and the HOF for another 4 years at least. Really hope that's not what you were meaning by that comment. And I agree with Onyx in that different stats can be utilized to determine a players worth. Also Cabrera has played 3rd most of his career only moved to 1st when he moved to Detroit for a few years and now back at 3rd.

[Dan R.]

Dan R I never said Trout was not HOF caliber but I will absolutely refuse to mention his name and the HOF for another 4 years at least. Really hope that's not what you were meaning by that comment. And I agree with Onyx in that different stats can be utilized to determine a players worth. Also Cabrera has played 3rd most of his career only moved to 1st when he moved to Detroit for a few years and now back at 3rd.

No, I'm definitely not saying that Trout is a HoF'er. I believe it's definitely possible, but there are still too many ifs - if he stays healthy, if he cuts down on his strikeouts, if he proves he can still post a .300+ average without a .390 BABIP (that's not sustainable, even for someone with Trout's speed).

What I was saying is that, while comparing Cabrera and Trout defensively, Cabrera is measurably the worst defensive 3B in baseball, whereas this year, Trout was as good in UZR/150 as a potential HoF'er who was known for his defense. Thus, they are not even in the same stratosphere.


And any advanced fielding metric (I chose UZR b/c it's my personal favorite) will show that Trout was a positive value on defense while Cabrera was a detriment. I challenge you to find a respected advanced fielding statistic (ie. something other than Fielding % that says: 1) That Cabrera was even a respectable 3B or 2) That he was better defensively than Trout was.

Honestly, and quite frankly, the "stats can show two different things" argument is extremely faulty. While it can show that a 20-win pitcher with a 4.15 ERA and a crappy K/BB ratio really didn't have a great year and that he probably won't win that many games next season, statistics do not lie. Even the biggest Mike Trout supporters knew he'd slump a bit in the last couple months - his BABIP (Batting Average on Balls In Play) going into August was simply unsustainable, so he was bound for a regression. If you know how to read statistics, they will rarely lead you astray.

[Dan R.]

For the record, the other largely respected fielding metric is TotalZone (FanGraphs uses UZR, Baesball-Reference uses TotalZone)

According to BR, TotalZone's Rtot stat is define as:

Rtot -- Total Zone Total Fielding Runs Above Avg
The number of runs above or below average the player was worth based on the number of plays made.

Trout's Rtot (LF, CF, RF combined): 16
Cabrera's Rtot at 3B: -9

Bottom line: according to UZR, Trout is worth about 20 more runs than Cabrera defensively; TotalZone has him worth 25 runs more

Look, I have admitted that you can make a case for Cabrera for MVP, it just is a case where defense is not taken into consideration. There is simply no educated, unbiased case that can be made that Trout and Cabrera are even comparable defensively.

[Strategist]

Another good arguement for Trout.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/ ... lb_xxx_xxx

[Shagg]

Cabrera won the triple crown no way in hell Trout is the MVP.

[Strategist]

Cabrera won the triple crown no way in hell Trout is the MVP.

What does that have to do with being most valuable?

Maybe best offensive player... but that doesnt equal Most valuable.